Coming to an MLB stadium near you, it's Royals baseball, Japanese style!Trey Hillman was announced as Kansas City's new manager Monday, and in the press conference he took some heat for his complete and total lack of experience at the major league level.
In his own defense, Hillman argued that he has spent the last five years managing a professional team in Japan, the Nippon Hamm Fighters, who just happen to be in this year's Japan Series Championship. (And in case you're wondering, that is Hillman riding the wave in celebration.)
Furthermore, Hillman said, "On many levels and on any given day, the quality of play [in Japan], I believe, is as good as it is here in the United States at the major league level."
So, what about it? Does Hillman have a point?
The 2006 World Baseball Classic, for all of its flaws, had to indicate something about the level of play in Japan. And every few years, Japanese players like Ichiro, Hideki Matsui, Daisuke Matsuzaka, and Hideki Okajima seem to find their way stateside and contribute greatly in the majors.
But for every Hideki Matsui, it seems, there's been a Kazuo Matsui, and for every Dice-K a Hideki Irabu, Japanese imports that have floundered or failed altogether.
So while the talent level -- the depth, in particular -- of Japanese baseball may be in question, I'd argue that the Japanese players we've seen are more disciplined and fundamentally sound than the average Major Leaguer. It's sort of baseball the way it used to be played here in the States.
And if Hillman can bring that style of play to Kansas City, he'll win over any skeptical Royals fan post haste.
12 comments:
So...how would you describe the "Japanese style" of baseball play? I hear about the "Japanese style" of play all the time, but nobody will tell me what it is. What do they emphasize? Dominating pitching? The long ball? Speed on the basepaths? Athletic fielders?
I found this to be highly instructive:
http://www.camden.rutgers.edu/~wood/Video/vt-baseball.htm
Japanese baseball is definitely team first, individual later.
Umm, Kaz Matsui's not really so much floundering anymore as he is starting at 2B in the World Series for the best defensive team of all time. I mean I get your point but that's a bad example. Bad timing at least.
starkwweather, I hear what you're saying, but I was pretty intentional about my wording there. I said he floundered, although, as we all know, he has had a resurgence in CO. I think we could both agree that initially he was a huge disappointment.
Perhaps I should have used Tuyoshi Shinjo instead.
I lived in Japan for one year and I saw four games there and one in Korea.
Japanese style is what the aforementioned person mentioned about team first individual later.
It's more of a 'National League' style in a sense they manufacture many more runs as opposed to the conventional American League style where they try and hit home runs. Basically Japanese style is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the 'Moneyball' theory.
People will say the world classic was flawed, and to an extent that's true, but in the end the most talented teams were there, and more importantly the most talented 'team' won. ( I mean come on the Americans had Mike Timlin...he is one of the worst set-up man, middle relief, relief pitchers ever...It's like putting Ronny Seikaly on the dream team in 1992)
Plus, what this also doesn't mention is that when Hillman took over the team, they were the laughing stock of the league, and within a few years he built them into a contender. They won the championship last year, and they currently in the final this year.
I mean Kansas City can't get much worse can they?
@Al and Joel - thanks for the added insight. Much appreciated
I'm not sure you can call much of what Joel said "insight." Although he certainly knows a bit about Hillman and the Hamm Fighters, more basic baseball knowledge seems to be lacking...
First of all, he's completely misunderstanding what "Moneyball" was all about. The idea of Moneyball, as Billy Beane and the A's practice it, is to find players the current market undervalues. At the time the book was written, it just so happened that players with high OBPs were undervalued, so that's who the A's, a team with a smaller budget, targeted. The Royals would do well to learn from their example. I can only imagine what the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of Moneyball must be. (Actually, I don't have to imagine it, 'cause the Knicks practice it. But that's another story.)
Second, the World Baseball Classic WAS flawed. Part of the beauty of baseball is its element of luck; the best team does not always win. Hell, even the Devil Rays win 60 games a year. If five game division series are crapshoots--and they are--what are one game playoffs?
Finally, I'm not sure where the Mike Timlin hatred comes from. Timlin's pitched in the Majors for 17 years and has a career ERA+ of 128. The year before the WBC, he threw 80 innings and had a 2.24 ERA; he's not exactly "one of the worst set-up men, middle relief, relief pitchers ever". In fact, he's not even close.
He is, however, correct that the Royals can't get much worse.
Hey all...
Fairly harsh Mr. Foote, as the main part of what Joel had to say (I think) was contained within his last paragraph. The Nippon Ham Fighters (and you'd call them the 'Fighters', not 'Hamm Fighters'... as Nippon Ham is their owner) have come from being the punchline of Japanese Yakyu jokes to being a model of efficiency. Trey Hillman's responsible for a lot of that, just as Bobby Valentine is over in Chiba.
The World Baseball Classic is exactly what every 'World Cup' is: an event that appeared on everyone's calendar. If you can't prepare a team to perform at_that_time, then to devalue it by saying "gee... we need a best-of-7 series to show what we're capable of" is pretty lame. Recently saw the same thing in the Rugby World Cup with heavy-weights Australia & New Zealand getting dumped in the quarter-finals. Tough luck, cya in 4 years time.
Every team went into the World Classic with exactly the same circumstances. And given the format, as Joel stated, the best 'team' won.
Japanese professional baseball, or 'puro yakyu' is team oriented, conservative in playing style, and often frustrating (for someone who likes the US counterpart). But the upshot of that is there are no where near the egos that need to be dealt with... other than the odd 'old-school' manager.
Kevin - some nice points in your article, and yes, Tsuyoshi Shinjo would've been a better example. Japanese baseball is different to that of the US. Some players simply don't thrive in your country (the rverse is true as well... former All-Star Dave Nilsson came to Japan & was simply awful). But to paint the situation as you do is fallacious. The fact of the matter is that whilst all Japanese players don't become super-stars, most of them aren't absolute busts. The vast majority end up just as American players do - contributors to a team.
PS. To contradict myself, you should've brought up Kei Igawa! Ugh!
My apologies to Mr. Foote for the hatred of Timlin. I however am a die hard Jays fan and while he was in Toronto he was brutal. I do think statistics can be deceptive, and I tried but could not successfully find how many blown saves he had, btu whenever Boston is in town and Timlin comes out of the pen, its always a good sign because we feel we can get right back in the game. I will begrudgingly give you Timlin being a solid pitcher.
In regards to the other point about the Moneyball comment I want to clarify myself. It was in regards to one part in Moneyball where they talk about the way the A's never stole bases. Now I understand this is not what 'Moneyball' is all about, but it is an element of it in terms of expectations on the field. In the book they talk about Ray Durham who was a premier base stealer and how they essentially tell him don't steal. THAT is exactly the opposite in Japanese baseball. They bunt, steal, manufacture runs which is what Billy Beane doesn't envision his team doing.
Japanese baseball is truly a more exciting game to watch from a fan's perspective, and the fact that they apporach it as a team game is why they were successful ( at the WBC ) in addition to their style of play.
On paper team USA should have won that tournament, but it was filled with superstars many of whom were considered 'power hitters' (Vernon Wells, A-Rod, Ken Griffey Jr, Derek Lee, and Mark Texiera). These players are all great in their own way, but you can't expect to go deep every time.
I don't see how you can say five game division series are crapshoots? One game yes of course, but the better team truly wins out in a five game series. Good teams get beat in international tournaments and the sudden death element of it makes it so intriguing.
I didn't mean to confuse anyone about the 'Moneyball' comment. I hope this clears it up.
Kaz Matsui's "resurgence" is a complete product of Coors Field. Take a look at his home and away splits. His away numbers are basically as bad as they were during his tenure with the Mets. He is tangential at best to that team's success.
I'm not sure how so-called "Japanese style" baseball would invigorate the Royals, unless you're a big fan of slap hitting and sac bunts. I personally do not see what people find so exciting about the sacrifice bunt and its wasted outs. The Japanese would do well to learn from American style baseball, frankly.
And all their stadiums are ugly domes. Baseball is not meant to be played indoors, damn it.
Dunno if I'd agree that from a fan' perspective it's a better game Joel...
Ummm... Richard, never seen Koshien, huh?
And US baseball? Doesn't work all the time... gogo World Baseball Classic huh?... You are right - there are things that Japanese Yakyu could take from the US game... just as there are many things that the American version could take from ol' Nippon.
The Japanese could learn from the US style?
And what exactly is the 'US Style'?
Last time I checked Japan were the world champions...
Hell the US lost in the semi finals. I don't see why Japan would take a page out of the US playbook when they lost.
That being said we could sit here all day and debate about which style is more effective and still not agree. Comparing US and Japanese baseball is comparing apples to oranges and a big part is due to culture. (ie-no ego's on Japanese teams vs many ego's on American teams)
I think the Japanese style is more exciting because they do run and steal a lot. Are sac bunts and slap hitting exciting? To some people no, but you say a sac bunt is a wasted out, but how can you say that when it advances a runner? I think its more of a waste to see a guy swing for the fences every time and fly out. Sure homeruns are exciting, no question, but small ball to me is exciting, and quite frankly a more efficient way to score runs than try and go deep every time.
I mean it's just my opinion.
The reason most teams play in domed stadiums is because it rains a fair amount in Japan and making up all the games rained out would be a logistical disaster.
But I agree with without Malice said, I lived 45 mins from Koshien stadium in Osaka and I dont care what any baseball fan says, it is bar none, hands down the most electrifying atmosphere to watch a baseball game. Plus it's outdoors, and it's the oldest stadium in Japan. Babe Ruth played a game there in 1984. Just check out youtube and type in koshien stadium and you will see what i mean...
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